When I see troll comments, I always imagine the author to be a little furry green monster jumping up to bite at feminist ankles, adorned with a permanent scowl which is the result of chowing down daily on a diet of The Daily Mail, Nuts, Zoo, Ann Coulter and MRA ‘literature’. Unfortunately, although I have not to my knowledge seen any of the trolls I have fought with in the flesh, I believe that they are actual human beings out there, in the world. Now that sucks like a vacuum.
They come to a feminist blog, usually identify themselves as ‘Anonymous’ (I prefer the label ‘chickenshit’ myself), and vomit out the MRA talking points: ‘Women are always lying about rape’, ‘it’s natural for men to act like jerks and women to act like slaves’, ‘any woman objecting to the status quo is a prude/ has hang ups’ (translation: ‘doesn’t want to sleep with me’), ‘because I say it is so it is so!’, ‘feminists don’t care about women in other parts of the world because they have the intelligence to make the links between all forms of misogyny’ (as if feminists were not always on the forefront of fights against poverty, imperialism and human rights abuses). I am naturally [sic] aggressive towards these morons, and feel compelled to argue with them. I put up my facts next to their bullshit, and they spew out more and more hatred, until my rage boils over and I rather resemble a pressure cooker.
You see, I hate what happens to women in this world. I hate the torture, rape, violence, contempt, poverty that they experience. And so when a troll comes in as a representative of the We Hate Women brigade, displaying vile support for all that women suffer, I want to respond, and tell them where to stick their bullshit arguments. But then I am reminded of something Feminist First told me once: ‘You don’t have to play by their rules’.
The truth is, whatever you say to a troll, he is not going to believe you, or admit that he does. He is not going to be convinced, because he has come to your blog especially to piss you off, to divert your energies from your struggles and goals. Trolls existed before the internet. They attacked brave feminists everywhere they spoke up; told feminists that women didn’t need feminism, that they were unnatural women, that they were going to hell, they beat them, they ridiculed them and they went to amazing lengths to shut them up. And why? Because they were afraid, and because, inside they knew that what feminists were talking about was real, that should feminism spread, their male privileges and constructed perverted pleasures would be destroyed. Every time a troll comes a-ranting, whether he polishes his argument with pseudo-intellectual gloss or simply calls you a whoredykebitchprude, he is afraid. And so he should be.
We deal with their arguments everytime we post here in that beautiful space known as the feminist blogosphere. We have carved out a place for ourselves, and the price we pay is that dickheads will come in to try and destroy us, break our unity and compromise our respect and love for each other. We will not let them. None of us need feel obliged to answer every dumbass rant of the troll, every slander, every shot of hatred, because trolls are not interested in rational argument, they are interested only in themselves. We mustn’t let them divert our energy into fighting the stupid.
Non-trolls who read our blogs and are open to argument will listen to us, they will ask us genuine questions and approach us respectfully. They will link to us, speak to us and their passion to make the world a better place for women will be obvious from their words and deeds. They will be ready to examine their own thought processes for misogyny, just as we make it our business to do in ours.
I would suggest that when we want to counter a misogynist viewpoint that we bring it to our own blogs, and post about it. That way we can highlight the bullshit we face without having to waste our precious energies in a slanging match with the wilfully ignorant. We can create the arguments and show them to the world, so that other women and men will be able to know misogyny when they see it. Trolls do not have the right to smear their hatred on our blogs. They do not have the right to free speech in our personal spaces; they have it everywhere else, and one would think that would be enough for them.
Trolls are despicable and infuriating, there’s no doubt about that. But we have the truth on our side, which we should make every effort to spread amongst those willing to listen. Trolls will always be trolls, they are the reactionaries in every society, whose self-esteem and privileges depend upon the maintainance of the status quo. They demand our attention because they think they’re owed it. They’re not. Our attention is far too valuable to waste on them.
Brilliant.
We have to keep reminding ourselves of this. Since I began stamping on my trolls (deleting them) I haven’t had any! Here’s hoping they got the message. I am not here for their entertainment. And I have better things to do with my time and intelligence.
Well said, Laurelin
Comment by deviousdiva — May 9, 2006 @ 11:12 am
I love Ginmars approach, she only unscreens them to make a fool of them. Quite frankly since I’ve begun comment moderation I’ve developed far more of an ability to “Just say No”, as in “NO, you do not have a right to speak on my blog”, “NO, I will not allow you to verbally harrassess me or my readers”, “NO, I will not let you silence voices with your venemous insults”, “NO, this is MY space which I have created and where women can be safe from you”, “NO, I do NOT have to let anyone see your hate or your venom or your tired woman bashing cliches”.
Just say NO to trolls and they tend to just fall away. Great post today!
Comment by bitingbeaver — May 9, 2006 @ 4:38 pm
Great post, and very well-timed for me personally.
Thanks
Comment by hippie — May 9, 2006 @ 5:01 pm
“Non-trolls who read our blogs and are open to argument will listen to us, they will ask us genuine questions and approach us respectfully.”
It’s true – the only people who deserve respect are the ones who show it. A blog is a personal space and noone should feel any compunction about deleting invasive and mindless comments. Brilliant post.
Comment by lasomnambule — May 9, 2006 @ 5:23 pm
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.
I’ve been plagued by the “What if the person isn’t a troll. What if he’s horribly misinformed, he’s never been exposed to feminism, and he’s honestly asking a question?” I’d hate to drive away someone who was open but inexperienced in feminist issues because we *need* to reach those folks.
But you have put that issue to bed for me. Anyone who is really open will ask in a respectful way. A question can be obnoxious due to ignorance, but if asked respectfully-if the person really does seem to want an answer-then that question deserves a response, IMO. Sorry, I’m thinking out loud here. This has been an issue that’s really bothered me.
I love the picture of the troll! I wish there was some way to animate it and give it a voice so it could scream (in a tiny voice) “Look at me! Look at me!”
Comment by spotted elephant — May 9, 2006 @ 10:43 pm
Yes indeed; our attention is far too valuable to waste. Being new, my blog has not yet been found by trolls, but once they arrive, all they can expect is a loud and resounding SILENCE, or at best, the echo of their own voice bouncing off the insides of my specially designed troll bin.
Comment by Feminist First — May 9, 2006 @ 11:28 pm
PERFECT!
And yes, I have Kaka Cookies and YOU of course have a life-time suscription to a freshly made batch anytime you like!
Comment by Kaka Mak — May 10, 2006 @ 1:45 pm
[...] There are plenty of people who substantively engage with issues, but prefer to do so anonymously, and few people object to that, even if discussion get heated. Trolls, however, are folks who derive some sort of power and pleasure from inflicting emotional pain on other people. I’ve had occasion to communicate with a number of other lefty and feminist bloggers about the troll problem, and most of us have had common, awful experiences. Laurelin in the Rain wrote this about trolls: …The truth is, whatever you say to a troll, he is not going to believe you, or admit that he does. He is not going to be convinced, because he has come to your blog especially to piss you off, to divert your energies from your struggles and goals. Trolls existed before the internet. They attacked brave feminists everywhere they spoke up; told feminists that women didn’t need feminism, that they were unnatural women, that they were going to hell, they beat them, they ridiculed them and they went to amazing lengths to shut them up. And why? Because they were afraid, and because, inside they knew that what feminists were talking about was real, that should feminism spread, their male privileges and constructed perverted pleasures would be destroyed. Every time a troll comes a-ranting, whether he polishes his argument with pseudo-intellectual gloss or simply calls you a whoredykebitchprude, he is afraid. And so he should be. [...]
Pingback by Feminist Law Professors » Blog Archive » On Trolls — May 10, 2006 @ 2:40 pm
I’ve always moderated comments at the foot of my stairs because, quite apart from anything else, it’s my space and commenters should behave as they would if they were guests in my living room – with respect, consideration and good manners. So I just delete the trollpoo straight off but I think this is a wonderful idea:
“I would suggest that when we want to counter a misogynist viewpoint that we bring it to our own blogs, and post about it. That way we can highlight the bullshit we face without having to waste our precious energies in a slanging match with the wilfully ignorant.”
I, too, resent wasting energy on someone who has no desire to debate the issues but just thinks he’s being big and clever by trying to undermine feminist truths. In common with just about every other radfem blogger I read, I don’t blog as a feminist primer and I kind of expect anyone whose interest is piqued by anything I’ve written to either engage in polite dialogue or go and do some basic research for themselves – there’s plenty of material out there, after all.
From now on I shall use trollpoo as blog fertilizer
Comment by witchy-woo — May 10, 2006 @ 8:19 pm
[...] Laurelin in the Rain [...]
Pingback by sonitus.org » Blog Archive » The Nature of the Troll — May 11, 2006 @ 12:12 am
What do you do if their porn aplogist “feminists” who come over just to yell at you? Because I seem to have gotten a fan club from over at paleofeminist.
Comment by Burrow — May 11, 2006 @ 2:26 am
Burrow,
Shut em down. Tell them to go away. That’s what I do, to be honest I simply don’t have the time. If they ask questions respectfully and honestly I have no problem answering them, but when they start standing on a high horse, complaining about you and using thinly veiled digs I shut em down just like I do with the bona fide trolls.
Seriously, the pro-porn bunch is just as bad, (if not worse!) than the trolls.
Comment by bitingbeaver — May 15, 2006 @ 7:51 pm
It's utterly laughable that you considering your aimless, circle-jerk blogging a "struggle". What are you doing here but being a whiny bitch, preahing to the choir and feeling all self-important? You like feeling victimised because it gives you a purpose, some meaning to your life, that's all. This is a motherfucking BLOG for god's sake.
Here is an example of the U Whoredykebitchprude Troll. It may be a cross-breed with the Closet Skinhead Troll, given its name. (edited by Laurelin)
Comment by Racist Joe — May 26, 2006 @ 2:37 am
You bitches are fucking kidding right? Almost every one of you c—s that post blogs censor your comments so that you create the atmosphere that everyone agrees with you. And since your demographic is particularly unintelligent – that is, the stupid bitch demographic – then they start believing what they read. Its a good cycle, but unrealistic.
And this kind of conduct will not get you a man.
Here is a another cross-breed Troll. This one is a cross between the Male Entitlement Troll (see the 'you should listen to my abuse' undertone) and the U Whoredykebitchprude Troll (liberal use of sexist insults as if that added up to an argument). Edited by Laurelin.
Comment by Jason — May 26, 2006 @ 3:07 am
I saw a link here from a fairly troll friendly website. Some trolls are tasteless but some are quite funny.
Trolls can often expose the moronic prejudices that people have and are not a bad thing. Trolls teach you to think before you emote and when you get used to them they can enhance the quality of your discussion. Having to deal with trolls helps you distingish between your ideological opponents and your prejudiced conceptions of them.
Granted ‘Women are always lying about rape’ is not a very funny or thought-provoking comment, but shouldn’t you be able to tell that it’s a troll anyway? What does it say about you if you can’t?
It’s interesting to note that the most right-wing websites have the strictist troll deleting policy. And with good reason. If you go on freerepublic.com and point out that the Republicans are worse than Hamas, those people go ape shit! It’s hilarous!
If you want to practice trolling I recommend you go here: http://forum.protestwarrior.com/
These people bother us at our rallies but they are super easy to antagonize online.
Comment by chickenshit — May 26, 2006 @ 3:17 am
TROLLSECUTION!
Comment by Anonymous — May 26, 2006 @ 1:34 pm
Dealing with unhelpful comments – how to rise above it all.
The ultimate and zen like aim of all bloggers should be to transend the medium… (you what?) …to rise above it all and not be sucked into some mud flinging match.
The common term for this kind…
Trackback by The fantastic site of Lord Matt — July 2, 2006 @ 9:56 am
[...] “The Nature of the Troll” … The truth is, whatever you say to a troll, he is not going to believe you, or admit that he does. He is not going to be convinced, because he has come to your blog especially to piss you off, to divert your energies from your struggles and goals. Trolls existed before the internet. They attacked brave feminists everywhere they spoke up; told feminists that women didn’t need feminism, that they were unnatural women, that they were going to hell, they beat them, they ridiculed them and they went to amazing lengths to shut them up. And why? Because they were afraid, and because, inside they knew that what feminists were talking about was real, that should feminism spread, their male privileges and constructed perverted pleasures would be destroyed. Every time a troll comes a-ranting, whether he polishes his argument with pseudo-intellectual gloss or simply calls you a whoredykebitchprude, he is afraid. And so he should be. … [...]
Pingback by ladyfest romania » Blog Archive » dealing with trolls — July 9, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
[...] an aggressive move and it’s very much in line with the way men are taught to behave. False statistics, name-calling, red-herrings—they all play a part in this stupidity. And woe be it upon you if [...]
Pingback by More Toenail Trimming . . . Feminist Edition « The Essentia Sphere — June 10, 2008 @ 5:46 pm