Laurelin in the Rain

March 23, 2006

A lesson in pornographic ethics from Kate Taylor

Filed under: Beauty is the beast, Crapitalism, Feminism, Sexuality, Violence — Laurelin @ 8:52 pm

Who should you look to for an intelligent discussion of modern feminism? Well, Kate Taylor of course, who can boast on her CV that she once wrote the sex life column for GQ. Apparently women who criticise the raunch culture are all wrong, because some women were made to be packaged up as sex toys for drooling men. I’m feeling a sense of deja vu… it’s almost as if I’ve heard this shit all before!

Men, you can relax. You are no longer the enemy. Instead, judging by recent events in America, modern feminists have a much shapelier target in their sights – other women. Specifically, scantily clad women who use their sexuality to get ahead.

First cliche of the piece: feminists hate men (or used to). Second cliche: criticising an exploitative culture which reduces women to sexual playthings is equal to treating women as the enemy. I guess Kate would think that I’m about to prove her right, as I’m about to ‘go after her’. But it has nothing to do with how she dresses. It’s because she’s an idiot.

The answer is, labouring to look like Pamela Anderson is not empowering. We’re not trying to be empowered. The twentysomething women I know don’t care about old-style feminism. Partly this is because they already see themselves as equal to men: they can work, they can vote, they can bonk on the first date. For younger women, raunch is not about feminism, it’s just about fashion.

Apparently the feminist movement ceases to exist once women have the vote, are allowed to ‘bonk on the first date’ and can work. After those important and worthy goals are achieved, everything is magically ‘equal’ and therefore to rights. Sexual slavery, poverty (especially the feminisation of poverty), violence against women, the lack of redress for survivors of sexual violence are all acceptable, and are not to be taken as signs of injustice and inequality. In fact, Taylor seems to think that young women ‘don’t care about Old-style feminism’, despite the enormous gains it made for them. I would suggest that that is actually Taylor’s own attitude, and remind her that today’s ‘Old-style’ feminists are eternally grateful to their foremothers. Continuing to oppose inequality and oppression is part of that respect.

[W]omen are rediscovering the joy of being loved for their bodies, not just their minds.

Or, they are aware that their appearance is the standard by which they will be judged, and thus identify with the maintainance of oppressive beauty rituals, and submission to the demands of culturally male sexuality. And the ’lads’ mags’, which (as shall be seen) Taylor rates so highly, hardly celebrate women’s minds.

[Men now] tend to listen to what women have to say, and when they marry they don’t consider sharing the housework to be castrating.

Studies have shown that the majority of housework is still done by women.

She [Ariel Levy] claims that boob jobs and crop tops “don’t bring us any closer to the fundamental feminist project of allowing every woman to be her own, specific self”. But what if a woman’s “own, specific self” is a thong-wearing, Playboy-T-shirted specific self who thinks lap-dancing is a laugh and likes getting wolf-whistled at by builders? What if a woman spends hours in the gym to create a body she is proud of?

I find that unlikely, because no person is an empty body with nothing more. Because women en masse find street harrassment humiliating and frightening. Because Playboy t-shirts arise from female poverty and suffering. Because ‘boob jobs and crop tops’ are not indicative of a ’woman spends hours in the gym to create a body she is proud of‘, but of a woman who has been taught that she as herself is not good enough. Because women aren’t trying to make themselves healthy, but instead they are trying to conform to a (deliberately) unattainable ideal.

I’ve worked for GQ and the Sun, and in neither place did I see women being exploited.

If Kate Taylor didn’t see it happen, then that means it doesn’t happen! 

Does [Rachel] Bell [from the f word] have any idea how much money women make when they take their clothes off? How much freedom and independence these girls can earn in an hour? Abi Titmuss and the new breed of totty generally own the copyright to their naughtiest photos, so with each publication they rake it in.

What the hell has the price got to do with it?! It’s still the sale of human flesh, and for every rich Abi Titmuss making a fortune there are many more poor women suffering violence in prostitution and pornography because our society maltreats women and puts a price on their flesh. Buying and selling a human body makes the person attached to that body a thing that can be used and stolen. Money doesn’t wipe out exploitation, and it doesn’t make it okay. Making money is not a moral justification for doing anything. Abi Titmuss and the girl trafficked in to be raped in the brothel are linked.   

Abi’s photos are ‘naughty’ because ‘naughty’ comes from sin, and women’s bodies are deemed sinful and dirty in Western culture. The ‘naughty’ becomes nice through the woman’s degredation- it is not feminists who condemn nudity, but the mores of society to which pornography owes its existence.

Look at lads’ mags from a different perspective and you see that what’s being exploited are men’s sexual responses, to give money to women.

Who gives the money to women? Men. Who has the money in the first place to give to women? Men. I think equal pay for equal work would be preferable.

It has always been like this, and it always will be, because men’s achilles heel [sic] is that they go to pieces when a woman drops her top. Old-style feminists never understood this.

It will always be the same, announces the omniscient sex columnist. So feminists, stop trying to change bad male behaviour, because men are actually pathetic animals who cannot act rationally after seeing a pair of bared breasts. It is this revolting and dehumanising stereotype that allows the rapist to claim his victim provoked him and he couldn’t help himself, and for the jury to agree with him.

We should be working together to support women in this country and across the world whose rights are still ignored, instead of squabbling and catfighting.

What are you doing to help, Ms Taylor? And how many stereotypes can you pack into one paragraph? Let’s see…

Men are great at working together; they are self-congratulatory and supportive. We are not. That is our true weakness, and feminism exemplifies this flaw – witness the countless factions, all fighting for different things, from sex-positive feminists, who believe nudity is OK, to third-wave feminists, who think eyeliner is misogynistic.

Note ‘women are bitchy and disagreeable’, ‘men always work together and never begin wars’ and ‘feminists have differences of opinion and therefore are in permanent conflict’. Feminist critique of sexual exploitation is morphed into a prudish dislike of nudity. And nice extra touch in ridiculing feminist criticism of beauty rituals.

For one thing, men in the office waste whole afternoons staring at your bottom, placing bets on whether you’re wearing underwear. Let them.

Give me a break! 

Use that time to take over the company. But even if you wear naughty lingerie for you, for no other reason than it makes you feel good, that is reason enough to keep it on.

So long as you make money, everything’s fine. Don’t complain about sexual harrassment because that makes you divisive and nasty and not a high flying sexpot. The degradation of your sisters is irrelevant, of course.

True feminism should celebrate femininity, and make you feel wonderful to be born a woman. It’s a shame some feminists today can’t do the same.

Feminism seeks to tell the truth about femininity, and Ms Taylor has missed Feminist Lesson No.1- female and feminine are not the damn same. One is biological, one is cultural. It’s not rocket science.

This ridiculous article completely ignores the very exploitative, violent and callous base upon which FHM and its ilk are built. Taylor is blind to the women suffering from the denigration of the female to a despised sex object and the behaviour of men who enjoy degrading them. Abi Titmuss registers with her; the rape survivor does not. She clearly either knows nothing about the treatment of women as a result of this patriarchal ethic, or she does not care. But then again, she’s not likely to want to piss off the pornographers who pay her salary.

55 Comments »

  1. Thank you thank you thank you Laurelin! I was shaking with rage when I read that article. I still am. Incapable of coherent comment right now, so glad you could say it all for me! Lxx

    Comment by laura — March 23, 2006 @ 10:17 pm

  2. STOMP STOMP

    grrrr…>I am so angry right now. Well said Laurelin. From what I’ve seen here is that the people who identify as third wave are pro-porn. I always get called secodn wave.

    Comment by Burrow — March 23, 2006 @ 10:38 pm

  3. Yes! This is concise, precise, and extremely well written. Thanks.

    Comment by Liz — March 23, 2006 @ 11:23 pm

  4. Excellent demolition of a completely ignorant article Laurelin! Fab. Well done. Though how you managed to maintain your composure I’ll never know!

    Comment by witchy-woo — March 24, 2006 @ 12:31 am

  5. Wow, that was wonderfully written, Laurelin! I have nothing to add except “exactly”!

    Comment by manxome — March 24, 2006 @ 12:40 am

  6. Nice 1!

    Comment by Tash — March 24, 2006 @ 1:43 am

  7. Fantastic critique! You made my day.

    Comment by Ginger — March 24, 2006 @ 2:10 am

  8. True feminism should celebrate femininity, and make you feel wonderful to be born a woman. It’s a shame some feminists today can’t do the same.

    Feminism seeks to tell the truth about femininity, and Ms Taylor has missed Feminist Lesson No.1- female and feminine are not the damn same. One is biological, one is cultural. It’s not rocket science.

    Exactly! Thank you, now I can finally go to sleep without having my mind racing all night. My roommate and I got into a big discussion about this tonight and I just wrote a post about language over at my blog. I was trying to tell him that most people (like Kate Taylor) are not smart enough to distinguish between female and feminine. I was actually arguing that changing the language would be helpful. Whether or not that is actually possible is beyond me, but at least someone else knows what I am trying to express! Thanks Laurelin! And, can I also take a moment to echo Burrow’s grrr…?

    Grrr.

    Comment by lelyons — March 24, 2006 @ 6:06 am

  9. Thanks for that, I can now relax my rage muscles.

    Comment by Kat — March 24, 2006 @ 7:50 am

  10. I love when you tear chunks out of anti-feminists! Great deconstruction of Taylor’s piece. How you manage to stay so coherent when all I could muster is gobsmacked disbelief is excellent – you should be a public speaker, or leader of a debating team!

    Comment by tp — March 24, 2006 @ 9:48 am

  11. Brilliant, Laurelin.
    On the plus side, that article is so poorly researched and informed, it’s pretty difficult to take it seriously.

    Hopefully!

    Comment by Andrea — March 24, 2006 @ 9:48 am

  12. Kate Taylor is a happy little waggy-tail patriarchal lap dog.
    I guess that statment make me a big-ol feminazi, by Taylor’s standards.
    Oh and that’s a bad thing, Katie?

    Comment by Kaka Mak — March 24, 2006 @ 2:53 pm

  13. Woot! Excellent article, but damnit, do you have to go and make me angry first thing in the morning? *grin* It just seems like we’re banging our heads against a brick wall on this, over and over and over again, these people just don’t get it. I just want to grab her by the shoulders and shake her until she understands.

    Comment by bitingbeaver — March 24, 2006 @ 5:24 pm

  14. That was excellent!!…and Taylor is so ignorant she’s not even worth out anger!

    Comment by Alexandra — March 24, 2006 @ 7:35 pm

  15. This is a disturbing trend. Tv, newspapers, media websites and ad-supported blogs know porn sells. The women who are being used to promulgate this are being pimped, of course, but that is beyond their comprehension. Although they call themselves “sex-positive” they don’t know the difference between sex and pornography. What is most sickening to me is that pornography has become the template for sex in this re-emerging culture.

    Here’s a couple more of Katie’s ilk. I’ve got links on several others, but I can take only so much:

    http://www.affdoublethink.com/archives/2006/02/26/porn_losers.php

    http://www.freemarketnews.com/Analysis/56/3653/2006-02-03.asp?nid=3653&wid=56&pv=1

    Comment by Pony — March 24, 2006 @ 8:12 pm

  16. Sorry about the dragged out urls. I don’t know how to do the word-link thing.

    Comment by Pony — March 24, 2006 @ 8:17 pm

  17. Aside from the comment about allowing our male colleagues to stare at our arses all day, I think this one is my favourite:”[W]omen are rediscovering the joy of being loved for their bodies, not just their minds.”

    Poor Geena Davis: She’s only a former part of the Olympic archery team, the president of an organisation that combats female stereotypes in the media (as well as the fictional Pres on CIC), and a member of MENSA. But shit, wouldn’t it be great if she posed for Playboy? You know, so she could say, “I’m not ONLY an insanely brilliant mathematical genius–I’ve got a nice rack, too!”

    So that’s why those MENSA women posed for Hefner’s wank rag. It always pissed me off when post-feminists/do-me feminists would say something like, “Well, no-one ever said a MALE brain surgeon couldn’t be hot!” For fuck’s sake! Do you see any male brain surgeons posing for Playgirl? Or participating in ‘Guys Gone Wild’ idiocy? Or getting cock enhancement surgery so their tiny shlongs don’t offend the aesthetic sensibilities of their female partners (not to mention a female-dominated society?) If you do, please let me know.

    Yes, I too wanted to be known for my random, arbitrary genetic characteristics, but my stupid feminist consciousness got in the way. Damn this oppressive brain!

    You fucking rock, Laurelin. Wish Taylor could read your commentary.

    Comment by alyx — March 25, 2006 @ 12:24 am

  18. Thanks, Laurelin.

    [W]omen are rediscovering the joy of being loved for their bodies, not just their minds.

    *speechless*

    Comment by Joida — March 25, 2006 @ 12:58 am

  19. You know what? The article made me furious, but your fisking of it was so immediately cut away the crap and expose the bullshit that I’m now in a good mood! It’s so great what honesty, logic, and great writing do to the anti-feminists.

    Thank you for a truly fantastic post. :)

    Comment by spotted elephant — March 25, 2006 @ 6:28 pm

  20. The fact that such APPALLING journalism is getting through shows just how little the media respect women’s issues. We’ve been seeing so much of this kind of trash recently. If you want to bash feminism it would appear that you don’t have to adhere to any journalistic standards. You can just spew your unreasearched, uninformed ignorant vomit as much as you like.

    Comment by Winter — March 26, 2006 @ 4:39 pm

  21. Who the hell are these “modern” feminists anyway? From the article, I think she’s referring to the kind of young, privileged middle-class women who, generally speaking, go to great lengths to deny that they are feminists at all! At least they are more honest than Kate Taylor.

    Comment by Winter — March 26, 2006 @ 4:42 pm

  22. I was speechless for a few minutes, and now all I can think is:

    Vichy Feminist! Vichy Feminist!

    Bog, I just hate that women let themselves be tools of the patriarchy… Laurelin: good job taking Kate’s idiocy apart.

    Comment by Jezebella — March 27, 2006 @ 8:30 pm

  23. Right on!

    Comment by AngryGrrl — March 27, 2006 @ 9:01 pm

  24. fabulous. as per usual….!

    Comment by Txfeminist — March 27, 2006 @ 9:35 pm

  25. what a load of crap! your responses are right on and i’m in full agreement with you.

    it’s weird how frequently i’ve heard “old-style feminists” or “crusty old-wavers” disparaged lately. i find it immature and totally wrongheaded. the terms “old style” and “crusty” seem misogynistic on their face and really piss me off. anyway, i’d rather ally with “crusty old-wavers” who continue to work for women’s advancement than with “new and improved-wavers” who buy into the patriarchal bullshit that male approval is the greatest gift a woman could hope to achieve.

    xoxo, jared

    Comment by ms. jared — March 27, 2006 @ 11:49 pm

  26. Laurelin, that was brilliant. I hope you saw the Letters page today – we got an amazing response to that piece and I think the opinions there would cheer you. I'd like to talk to you about this – can I email you?

    Best wishes, and thank you,

    Kate

    Comment by Kate Taylor — March 28, 2006 @ 9:20 am

  27. My email address is laurelinintherain@yahoo.co.uk

    Comment by Laurelin — March 28, 2006 @ 10:35 am

  28. Mail for you.

    Comment by Kate Taylor — March 28, 2006 @ 10:54 am

  29. Many thanks, Kate. I’ve replied.

    Comment by Laurelin — March 28, 2006 @ 11:32 am

  30. [...] In turn, blogger Laurelin in the Rain had strong reactions to Taylor’s essay, retorting in pertinent part: …Feminism seeks to tell the truth about femininity, and Ms Taylor has missed Feminist Lesson No.1- female and feminine are not the damn same. One is biological, one is cultural. It’s not rocket science. [...]

    Pingback by Feminist Law Professors » Blog Archive » Feminism, Femininity, Sexuality, “Raunch” and Empowerment — March 28, 2006 @ 5:49 pm

  31. Bravo!

    Comment by Jack — March 29, 2006 @ 7:52 am

  32. Thank you soooo much for your response, I wish wish wish that Taylor could read them. I was so angry when I read the article! I am a 20 year old woman and I (like most young women) find it horrible and frightening getting harassed in public by men, whether it’s on the street/ in bars/ wherever, and she is trying to say that some women enjoy it! WELL PLENTY DON’T! Plenty of us have high enough self-esteem and value ourselves enough to NOT NEED attention from men to make us feel good about ourselves!!I don’t need someone else fawning over my body to make me feel valued, in fact it makes me feel the opposite! I hate hate hate it when we’re told that we actually ENJOY being sex objects, and if we say we don’t then we’re somehow in denial!’[W]omen are rediscovering the joy of being loved for their bodies, not just their minds’ blah blah blah…. maybe she should question WHY some women only feel value from being looked at by men? That article is so badly thought out and so narrow-minded, it makes me so ridiculously angry that the guardian published it!

    Comment by Jessika — March 29, 2006 @ 4:36 pm

  33. Yes, Taylor's article was smug and silly and yes, feminism, femininity and being female are all different things. However, liking sex and enjoying dressing up doesn't automatically make you ignorant, or a bad feminist. Nor does "consuming pornography" by which I mean reading or viewing sexually explicit material. A lot of porn is sexist, sure, but that's because the whole or mainstream culture is predominantly sexist. What gets missed in a polarised flurry like this is that women are actually working in the porn industry to produce material that is sexually explicit and exciting without having to be crude or degrading: Petra Joy and Anna Span both make films that are intended to appeal to women and let's not forget the unmistakeable political, feminist elements of work done by the likes of Annie Sprinkle and Nina Hartley or, in the UK, Marisa Carr.
    Oh, and before anyone Googles me and passes out, yes, I am a pornographer and yes, I am a feminist in favour of equal pay, reproductive rights, an end to domestic violence and a greater public understanding that woen a hmn bens, not some heterogenous sub-category of humanity. But I don;t think banning all kinds of sexual expression is a good way to achieve or safeguard those things.

    edited to remove porn site link- sorry but I won't let it be advertised on my blog. Laurelin.

    Comment by zak jane keir — March 29, 2006 @ 6:27 pm

  34. Clarification: I didn’t say that enjoying sex makes one unfeminist, or that sexual expression should be banned.

    Comment by laurelin — March 29, 2006 @ 7:38 pm

  35. i have only just found this website and you have totally inspired me! thank you laurelin! i was doing some english a level coursework on margaret atwood’s the handmaids tale this afternoon and i felt i needed a new perspective on it. on browsing merrily through the web i was led irresistibly into a 12+ hour introduction to the history of feminism, male dominance and control in society. and then the shock of a lifetime to read idiot-kate drivelling on, as if abi titmuss is someone to aspire to! everything i have read (apart from kate, someone help her ignorant soul) has condemned all i have always hated about our society. i read only today that women account for 1% of the world’s wealth. the world we live in is so appalling, but people like ms taylor seem to believe that women are getting the better deal, UNBELIEVABLE!

    although it is quite literally the middle of the night, im fighting the urge to go out and rip all lads mags from the shelves of all newsagents in my (very small and narrow minded welsh) town! i think *grinning* it would go down very badly!

    im currently no where near knowledgeable enough or experienced to say this eloquently, but our society today horrifies me. the amount of degradation that women put themselves through quite willingly, though possibly unknowingly, is astounding.

    its time we all fought back (having said this, the last time some one tried to slap my bum i slapped them right back in the face, too severe??) but why should anyone have to put up with this kind of harrassment? women need empowering, and men are certainly NOT going to be the ones to help us do it! i feel that major upheavals in our society should, no, must come about, else what has the all fight been for??

    what young girls today need is to understand the power they have and for what a comparatively short time they have had it for. the first and only time i was taught at school about feminism and women’s rights was at gcse history, and i was the only girl in the class! without proper sex education, lessons in mutual understanding and respect at school, as well as sufficient regulation of porn from the studio to the shop i think our society is going to bury itself in a mass of sleaze and degradation, with women crushed at the very bottom of the heap.

    thank you laurelin. i think sometimes a person just needs the blatantly obvious to be spelled out passionately for you! thank you for giving me a stronger voice, i will not be quiet now! do excuse this long and extensive rant! x x x x

    Comment by bizzybee — March 30, 2006 @ 3:18 am

  36. Brilliant! :-)

    Comment by Louise — March 30, 2006 @ 1:30 pm

  37. This is indeed a great post and a brilliant rebuttal of a lot of stereotypical drivel from a “neo-feminist”.

    Whilst I don’t see anything wrong per se with consuming, producing, buying, enjoying porn, or with women to dress “sexy”, the babefication and pornification of mainstream society is a very worrying trend. Is this the dividend of feminism: the newly found right to sexually exploit or be sexually exploited? This is the endless emphasis on what is essentially just one mere aspect of human life, sexuality, for nothing more than monetary gain, let’s not be fooled here: the only empowerment this new sex-culture results in is financial empowerment…

    Personally as a man, I find it all rather off-putting: no turn-on here, I’m afraid…

    Comment by Gert — March 30, 2006 @ 4:39 pm

  38. This is great, I sometimes worry that I am the only woman I know who finds pornography quite disgusting and degrading to women. I have had a hard time trying to explain to people that I don’t think that mainstream pornography or objectification is a good thing for women. It is not liberation, I think feminism is experiencing a backlash, especially over the past couple of years, which is just really sad and makes me angry that people misunderstand feminism. So many men in our society think that feminists are “men-haters” or something, when all we are trying to do is make the world a better place for women (and men). I refuse to see how pornography, stripping or celebrities posing for magazines in the nude are liberating for women. Don’t men feel annoyed with being thought of as sexually promiscuous and a slave to their sexual urges? Personally I would feel very angry being defined by such. Pornography has become much more violent and degrading to women over the past couple of years and the images of the sexually empowered woman in the media is usually a woman dressed in head to toe PVC wielding a whip!! I do not understand how this can be seen as empowering at all. I don’t think nudity is bad at all but I object that nudity always has to be sexualised for the enjoyment of men. Women should not have to feel this constant uncomfortable nagging feeling that it’s okay for their husband, partner or lover to enjoy pornography and yet not feel they have a right to object to it because it is “normal”. I’ve been studying Gender and Society in my Sociology degree and it’s been fantastic to learn about feminism and I think it will be a lifelong passion :)

    Comment by Lizzie — March 31, 2006 @ 11:58 am

  39. Laurelin, your post is fantastic, and also it’s sooo good to know that that article made so many other people want to spit with rage, I could hardly contain myself when I read it. I recently spoke to the journalist Louise France about young women and feminism and told her that I knew lots of feminists and that I didn’t think that the future of feminism was so bleak….then I read Kate Taylor’s article and felt so totally deflated (among other things). In fact I didn’t even have the heart to post a comment about it! There seems to be such a rising tide of articles about this kind of thing, thakfully most are tempered and intelligent and aren’t trying to pass the Pussy Cat Dolls or Jordan off as icons that young women should aspire to. There needs to be dialogue before there can be change, who cares if not everyone agrees on every single point, it’s the fact that people are willing to listen to each other that is most important. Just because feminists disagree doesn’t demolish the movement, feminists are not a homogenous group of people with the same life experiences, they are women and men that want to make room for a viable alternative to patriarchy…and don’t we need it!!!

    Comment by Jo — March 31, 2006 @ 5:25 pm

  40. Thank god for you writing this Laurelin. I was so angered by Kate Taylor’s article and you have brilliantly put into words, that which I was dying to say.

    A fantastic post, beautifully eloquent; The Guardian should print this as a counter-argument to Kate’s anti-female sexist nonsense.

    Comment by The Girl — March 31, 2006 @ 6:26 pm

  41. I agree with you and applaud you for your keen insights and analysis. But there’s an issue that has been nagging me. You say: “They are aware that their appearance is the standard by which they will be judged…. Women en masse find street harrassment humiliating and frightening…. They are trying to conform to a (deliberately) unattainable ideal.” That’s true of very many women, I’m sure, but not all. I find street harassment appalling because so many women are humiliated and frightened by it, but personally it doesn’t affect me that much. I pay very little attention to my appearance, and have not found that I am judged by it often, except by the very street harrassers whose opinion I don’t care about. I am in complete solidarity with the women who are oppressed by these facts, but because they are not my issues and I am a woman too, I struggle to understand both how they have become such painful concerns for them but not for me, and how I can contribute to a feminist movement whose ideals I embrace wholeheartedly but which in many respects looks on me as an unwanted outsider for somehow not experiencing the same oppression.

    Comment by asfo_del — April 3, 2006 @ 8:13 am

  42. oh my fucking god.

    i love it when you write.

    i think its stupid for women to constantly think it somehow gives them strength to bypass feminsim because its seen as prudish and bad for a woman of today. that its alright to pretend everything is ok and equal. i dont give a damn if people choose to live their lives selling themselves out for tits and ass, thats their choice but i dont agree with it and thats my right. i spend a lot of time dressing up, playing with make up and hair products and construicting an image and thats my choice. im well aware that i pander to images and types i get from society. but i see the reason that i shouldnt.

    that womens bodies become currency and are something that men can dissect and own is so infuriating. so much more infuriating when women support this trade of themselves.

    oh fury fury.

    Comment by charlotte — April 3, 2006 @ 12:49 pm

  43. Well said Laurelin. I have read through the responses on the Guardian blog, and note that the debate had headed off in the direction of the links between porn and sexual violence. Understandable. I fired the following off to the editor of the Guardian in the hour after reading the article, in a fine state of inarticulate rage. But maybe still worth airing in public, to make some of the wider points about attitudes to, and discrimination against, women in UK society:

    “Yet another piece arguing that objectification of women is fine so long as the women whose photos are being published are making money out of it. Oh, and we don’t need feminism any more because men will all fancy us if we dress in the way they do in the photographs, and that makes everything OK.

    Whoop de do. Great. Everything’s fine then. I won’t worry any more about any of the following:

    - Still encountering discrimination as I use the title “Ms”;
    - Still encountering the assumption that as I am female I must be in low paid employment;
    - Still encountering the assumption that as I am female I must want to get married;
    - Still encountering the assumption that as I am female I must want children;
    - Still encountering the assumption that I must be on a “diet” and know nothing about nutrition, so I will spend any amount of money on processed food full of unecessary substances providing it is “low calorie”;
    - Still encountering the assumption that I can’t manage money, and that I inevitably run up massive debts buying shoes;
    - Still encountering the assumption that I must be desperate to look younger;
    - Still encountering the asumption that my mother ever had such a thing as a “maiden” name, and that I have no right to say what my own name is (particularly from banks);
    - Still encountering the assumption that my male companion will be making the decision;
    - Still encountering the assumption that my male companion is paying the bill (any bill, anywhere);
    - Still encountering the assumption that my male companion is choosing the wine;
    - Still encountering tradesmen who think they don’t have to listen to me because I am only a women (get belligerent, take the money, clear off).

    For the record, I couldn’t care less about being or looking “feminine”. All of the definitions and assumptions of femininity that I have seen are based on assumptions of personality and attitude that are incompatible with mature adulthood, and I am a mature adult. Luckily, so are a great many men, who will no doubt think just as little of this article as I do”.

    Comment by darkgreylife — April 3, 2006 @ 5:25 pm

  44. Thank you, Laurelin. Kate Taylor’s article was badly written and ignorant. Well done for standing up to her and proving that she really is talking out of her arse.

    Comment by Lotte — April 5, 2006 @ 1:37 pm

  45. Laurelin –
    Great comment, of course! Would it be impertinant to ask what Kate Taylor had to say regarding your critique and the barrage of impassioned replies? Does she have a reply to the replies?

    Comment by Lucy — April 6, 2006 @ 7:53 am

  46. Hi Lucy,

    Thanks! Kate Taylor has written an answer here: http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/kate_taylor/2006/03/ill_see_you_all_back_at_the_ra.html
    There’s space to put comments there.

    Laurelin x

    Comment by laurelin — April 6, 2006 @ 8:55 am

  47. Well done Laurilen! You certainly put her in her place didn’t you?!!!!

    Comment by Missie Vuur — April 11, 2006 @ 11:28 am

  48. “True feminism should celebrate femininity, and make you feel wonderful to be born a woman. It’s a shame some feminists today can’t do the same”

    AND THAT’S THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT!!!! FEMINITY DOESN’T ALLOW TO FEEL WONDERFUL TO BORN A WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by Missie Vuur — April 11, 2006 @ 11:35 am

  49. EXCUSE THE MISTAKES IN THE LAST COMMENT! I’M SO ANGRY IT APPEARS CAN’T SPELL OR WRITE!!!!!

    Comment by Missie Vuur — April 11, 2006 @ 11:37 am

  50. thank you for writing what I would have attempted – had I been able to articulate the dismay I felt reading this claptrap of Kate Taylor’s. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Have you sent her a link to your site? katetaylor.net for all interested. I think your critique generated as much response as her orig. article :) Cheers!

    Comment by Bonnie Davis — April 11, 2006 @ 9:20 pm

  51. Am a guy, and have always disliked myself for looking up laddish magazines/porn… They’re degrading to women, they degrade me, and exploit all of us by making a commodity of flesh. And the arguments used by the likes of Kate Taylor are outrageous, stupid – good job of demolishing them.

    Comment by mr — May 7, 2006 @ 8:05 pm

  52. dear poster #51 and all those who consider themselves feminist. You might like what some ‘lads’ are doing down in California to get people healed from the destructive effects of pornography.

    http://www.xxxchurch.com

    Comment by Christine — May 19, 2006 @ 2:50 am

  53. Kate Taylor’s article was offensive at so many levels. What it boils down to is that women must give men what they want in order to get what we want. Jesus Christ. My brother was treated with so much deference, no matter what he did, and from a very young age, I just could not understand it; I was smarter, funnier, just as capable and athletic, yet I was denigrated (I am 44 years old). So, I thought that in order to be respected, I had to ACT like a man. Not enough time/room in here to go into all that that entailed, but suffice it to say, the operative word being “ACT”. I don’t think we should be so intent upon defining what the “proper” or “empowering” actions of a woman SHOULD be. Why can’t a woman be and do what she IS–whether that be a caring caretaker, an actor of sex acts, a giving teacher, an inhibited voyeur, a passionate free lover, a nourishing gardener etc. etc. etc. I think feminism is a movement to allow women to be as equally free to be as men are. We don’t have to “give men what they want” How can we sum up in a paragraph what men want anyway? There is somebody for everybody, as far as that goes. Thank God I finally realized that I do not have to “act like” a man, nor do I have to allow someone else’s definition to define me as a woman. On that note, I say getting older is a relief—everybody (who is lucky enough) gets to the point where they will no longer be described as “young.” I will rejoice in the day when women will realize they do not have to fight this, that they do not have to equate being youthful with being worthy (especially of men’s affection). We have a long way to go on this. Advertisers to me are the same as the propagandists for the Nazi regime in that advocated euthanizing those “unworthy of life.”

    Now that probably is as clear as mud, and a bit extreme, but that is my 2 cents’ worth.

    Comment by Connie Watkins Hodges — October 12, 2006 @ 1:44 am

  54. Schuldenberatung

    Schuldenberatung

    Trackback by Schuldenberatung — October 18, 2006 @ 5:16 pm

  55. At Halliburton/KBR, sexual assault is just part of the workplace experience
    for women Like many viewers, I watched this ABC 20/20 report when it first aired
    in December with jaws-open, eyes-bugging horror. It told the story of two women
    workers for Halliburton/KBR who had been sent to Iraq. There, one, Jamie Lee
    Jones, a young computer tech, was gang-raped on her fourth day by coworkers
    after being drugged; the other, Tracy Barker, was sexually assaulted by a State
    Department employee. Both immediately reported their assaults, only to have
    KBR first lock them in isolation, then question their accusations. In the case
    of Jones, it even "lost" the medical report that documented evidence
    of gang rape.
    Click on a small picture to see shocking photos:

    Comment by Thuppyhix — February 22, 2008 @ 6:53 am


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